Chess Forum

@ Orgz

One thing more, to be sure, check please both Top books, e.g
Unicornio2 and Everest, yes they played +2000 games (per player)
Sure with Kayra engine they gained some better points ... but
Anyhow still the Leading book (DON Hercules) remained as before....


Greetings

Sedat Canbaz wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:18 pm

Orgz wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:22 pm i guess we will never know . But i have great faith in this one.

Ah ah... Mr. Tanick ) ok, Haze TR's mystery solved... e.g
+100 extra unofficial games played, now your book contains 1260 games
And now +1 point gained, nice. but unfortunately Haze could not be Winner...
Even if we will continue testing Haze with 1000 games more, there is
No much possibility to be Champion...believe Me, reality is reality!
Sure everything is possible, but before, I think/suggest:
You have to add / update with newer stronger lines... only then...
Actually if you will manage to create newer lines that never played before
Sure...if superior strong... your book will be in better positions...
Maybe even better than DON Hercules...it is all in your hands !)

And once more, as I stated earlier:
I see no point of running all weaker books over than + 1000 games
I mean same number of games such every book to include 1260 games,
Especially when creating/running huge rating lists... it will be
Just waste of time...because the Electricity is not so cheap !)

If still not so clear:
Actually if Haze TR performed in Top 5 or 10 (in Official ranking)
I'd run it as same number of games as DON Hercules, OPTIMUS etc.
Because then any highest ranked book (especially who are in Top 3)
They have much more chances to be Champion!

In other words,
If no much chances to be in Top 5 or 10...I prefer less games..
Because there are such critical weak lines in some opening books,
Really just waste of time...btw, who cares much about them ?)
Sure I test them.. and I feel BIG pleasure... but if +1000 games..
For them is too much...

And here is the Unofficial Ranking (via latest extra Haze 100 games)

Code: Select all

Rank Name                Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 DON Hercules 3     3780    3    3  1260   54%  3760   90% 
   2 OPTIMUS 2311       3778    3    4  1260   53%  3760   92% 
   3 Red Dragon         3777    3    4  1260   53%  3760   89% 
   4 ORIONPAX4          3777    3    4  1260   53%  3760   92% 
   5 Everest 300923 Ka  3774    4    4  1060   52%  3760   88% 
   6 Everest 300923     3773    4    4  1240   52%  3759   93% 
   7 SENTINEL 4         3772    4    4  1260   52%  3760   94% 
   8 Unicornio 2 Ka     3770    4    4  1040   52%  3760   94% 
   9 Unicornio 2        3769    4    4  1120   52%  3760   95% 
  10 CachoSCCT opt2     3769    4    4  1260   52%  3760   95% 
  11 Unicornio          3769    4    4  1140   52%  3759   95% 
  12 OlisFish 201123    3768    4    4  1260   51%  3760   95% 
  13 Haze TR            3768    4    4  1260   51%  3760   90% 
  14 Eman 061223        3768    4    4  1260   51%  3760   93% 
  15 Leschats 291223    3767    4    4  1260   51%  3760   93% 
  16 Rodent Z           3767    4    5  1000   51%  3761   91% 
  17 Leschat 291223p    3766    4    4  1260   51%  3760   95% 
  18 C.B. Conqueror     3766    5    5   900   50%  3763   96% 
  19 Cubail 2024        3765    4    4  1260   51%  3760   93% 
  20 Drifter            3765    4    4  1120   51%  3761   94% 
  21 Hamish 5           3764    4    4  1260   51%  3760   96% 
  22 Xperimental        3764    5    5   920   50%  3763   95% 
  23 DragonTooth        3764    4    4  1260   51%  3760   94% 
  24 HCan UPD           3764    4    4  1220   51%  3760   96% 
  25 Africaata 311223   3763    5    5  1000   50%  3761   94% 
  26 Donmez Dual        3762    5    5   820   50%  3763   90% 
  27 Beast              3761    5    5   940   50%  3762   95% 
  28 Goddess            3761    4    4  1040   50%  3761   93% 
  29 Rebel              3760    6    5   660   49%  3765   97% 
  30 Sun                3760    5    5  1000   50%  3761   94% 
  31 Zaytsev            3760    5    5   800   50%  3762   97% 
  32 Notyet Dual        3759    5    5   760   49%  3764   94% 
  33 V by Kerveros      3759    5    5   840   49%  3763   95% 
  34 Grendel All        3758    5    5   960   50%  3760   97% 
  35 MobY v1            3758    5    5   780   49%  3764   94% 
  36 Hubble 3.3         3758    5    5   920   49%  3762   94% 
  37 Goi forum          3757    5    5   940   49%  3762   90% 
  38 LooseCanon         3757    5    5   820   49%  3763   93% 
  39 Sari 300923        3756    5    5   860   49%  3762   94% 
  40 CallmeX            3756    5    5   860   49%  3763   95% 
  41 Grendel W          3756    5    5   780   49%  3763   94% 
  42 Sambala            3755    5    5   720   48%  3765   93% 
  43 Ingkong 230923     3755    5    5   900   49%  3763   94% 
  44 Cevdet 241223      3755    5    5   780   49%  3764   91% 
  45 StudentChess       3755    5    5   900   49%  3762   93% 
  46 Solista W          3754    5    5   840   49%  3763   93% 
  47 Cerebellum X       3754    5    5   740   48%  3764   94% 
  48 Dara Light         3753    5    5   720   48%  3764   94% 
  49 HCanFree Upd       3753    5    5   720   48%  3764   92% 
  50 Echo               3753    5    5   760   48%  3763   92% 
  51 CF1977             3753    5    4   900   49%  3762   93% 
  52 Taram              3752    5    5   720   48%  3764   91% 
  53 Vitamin 290320     3751    5    5   740   48%  3764   94% 
  54 Bloom 090723       3751    5    5   640   47%  3767   90% 
  55 GutLess Git        3751    5    5   740   48%  3763   93% 
  56 Feta X             3750    5    5   680   48%  3765   92% 
  57 No Book            3750    5    5   600   47%  3765   95% 
  58 Scorpio            3750    6    5   520   47%  3766   92% 
  59 Yoruba 311223      3749    5    5   700   47%  3765   88% 
  60 Mini Mighty        3748    5    4   760   47%  3763   92% 
  61 Grendel CTG        3748    5    5   680   47%  3764   92% 
  62 Solista All        3746    5    5   600   47%  3765   91% 
  63 Bigfoot            3742    4    4   740   46%  3764   88% 
  64 Lion 110423        3739    4    4   640   45%  3765   82% 

Thanks Sedat
Seems there's still much work to be done

Orgz wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 6:56 am
Thanks Sedat
Seems there's still much work to be done

Not at all Tanick...and
Thanks for your understanding...

Actually that's a good way that
You did not blame my used cond.
Such as wrong, bad, poor engine etc.

You may know,
There are such guys in our chess hobby,
When they can not be frequent Winners..then
Usually are looking for holes over my work...

But believe Me,
If I'll start to look in their work..
I will find TONS of poor, worse work...

But after all, is it worth ?
Frankly I have more important things to do..
But anyhow, via my latest comments, I think that
I gave some reasonable messages..if they will
Gain .. will be good..if not .. too bad...
But I can live with that too !)

Greetings

Hello Chess Friends,

Just I'd like to inform you that,
I've started a new interesting Eng Tour, but this time as NON-NNUE
And with the smallest Top engines out there (up to 555 KB in size )

By the way, as you may know,
Via NNUE assistance (gaining from previous played/trained data),
Any chess engine (including humans) can/should play stronger, right ?

And as I stated before,
NNUE brought better quality of chess for sure, but in same time
Killed the 'originality'...and 'fun' of course...
At least I can say for matches with 3700+ (e.g in case of each other)
Only via fast TC, if vs much weaker engines or critical opening etc..
Only then we may some more wins...in other words, I wish to say over:
NNUE = STRONG, but BORING ! where as
NON-NNUE = WEAKER, but EXCITING !

Ok.. let's back to the current actıall new tour, I wonder really
What will be influences (without NN assistance) over standing..
Sure as participants, which are very small / micro engines...

What I can say more over,
Current planning tour is more close to / like HUMAN Game - Play !!
Because, no any human can check, gain from previous data, right ?
Sure I mean in official competitions...

But anyhow, there is one true,
It will be a very hard competition for sure...!!

And please stay tuned... new updates soon...

Btw, Engine registrations are acceptable...
But up to 555 KB (uncompressed size)

Greetings )

Breaking News (12.01.2024):
1st of all, I wish to introduce engines which are incredible small in size,
But in same time, theirs playing strength is unbelievable super strong!
Plus as other very important point is that,
A 'real' chess is not a game to be gained from previous played data!
Forget everything, is there anyone here, who plays in active game/s,
And in same time to gain from previous data? frankly I've never seen..
Just imagine, We (Humans) are playing/gaining from previous games..
What will be the situation ? many of us (including myself) we'll say that
Such as this is not as serious game at all! but this is also true that,
We test Engines, (not Humans) but anyhow (before NNUE appeared),
The situation was like the current competition, our tests were close/like
To Humans game-play...in other words, I think that it's not so bad idea
Time to time to check also latest engines strength under Classic chess
Conditions, besides, testing only engines via gaining from previous data,
Would not be too boring?) as taking much vitamins, it's dangerous too!
And as I stated before on Goi + Openchess, registrations are acceptable,
But I hardly doubt that we'll see new entries, which will manage to perform
Better than Cfish 030820, because almost all of the Top programmers are
Switched to NNUE..and I wonder too, who cares much about 'real' chess?
Btw, why I've preferred very small sizes (up to 555 KB)? simply because
There are such engines, which come with huge sizes, e.g one of them is
Fire 4 (released in 2014) close to 25 MB, I have no idea what is inside..
But up to 555 KB..it's all right, if Cfish (with 207 KB) is Number One...
Why not any other engine to be not better?) yes..that's why I say again:
This is a very hard contest..not so easy as it looks...anyhow, just enjoy )
Btw, the tour is still active..as one of next entries will be nanoSzachy 4
Which is just 37 KB, ok...that's all for now.. good luck to all participants!

The Champion: Cfish 030820 - My Congratulations to Cfish, SF Team!
Note: Exactly same Cfish vers via this tittle is already 8-times Champ!

For Latest Standings:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... on-nn-cs-7

Greetings )

Breaking News (16.01.2024):
Human like tour is over, congrats and thanks to all and here final results...
Be aware that I realized to run two separate tourneys, one which is close
And above than 65% in Eng Similarity, where the other tour is up to 65%...
In other words, Ethereal is won the tour, based on more original engines,
Where Cfish is managed to win the tour, based on derivative etc engines
And as you may see too, no double standards..no unbalanced issues..e.g
Every engine is under test...sure which suits to the current new rules and
For anyone missed, as players only small in size (up to 555 KB) allowed..
And played the Top engines, which are close to GM level plus 3000+ Elo
Btw, to be honest, current competition reminded Me the old good days..)
Sure time will tell, but I hope to run more frequent Engine matches under
More real, serious conditions..e.g gaining from older/previous data, I mean
Playing via BIG help (via Evalfiles ) is already not much exciting as before..
E.g many of NEW engines are NOT capable to play at 'Classical' system
Only via NNUE assistance...otherwise, no way at all...really as sad news...
It's like, without compass: you can't find your home's way from 100 meters)
But the good news is that we have too many engines, which are capable..
Ok..that's all for now, see you later friends and thanks for your interest )


65%+ Champion: Cfish 030820 - My Congratulations to Cfish, Stockfish Team!
Note: Exactly same Cfish vers (via this tittle) is already 8-times Champion!

Up to 65% Champion: Ethereal 14 - Congrats to Andrew Grant, Alayan & Laldon!
Note: Ethereal engine is as 1st time a Winner, nice! but better late than never..


FOR FINAL STANDINGS:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... on-nn-cs-7

GAMES:
https://mega.nz/file/b5J0UALb#glsv9v8L2 ... HW9SyrC3dY


Best,
Sedat

Hello Chess Friends,

I am very pleased to announce that,
Another new interesting CS is coming very soon!

Some Notes,
Current tourney will be organized in the name of Mr. Homayoun
Definitely he deserves more, but for right now that's all what I can do..

Well, as planning eng players,
I hope to test again the small Top engines in size (about up to 2 MB)
This time I pick (for more fair cond.) which are close in release dates!
E.g all engines are belonging to 2017, mainly Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec 2017
Exception, only Xiphos 0.6 is much newer (released on November 2019)
As reason...that's as small request/interest by Mr. Homayoun

On the other hand,
And you may know too, and from my experience I can say:
It's a soft touch to release a 2024 engine and in same time
To be stronger than older ones, such as released 7 years ago...

But this is also true that,
Not so easy as it looks to create World's strongest engine...
Sure, I mean about which are very close in release dates!
As we know, definitely newer, better ideas are required !!
And once more, no one can be on Top by the work of others!
By the way, as same words are going for opening books too!

Note also that (about the current planning participants),
Mostly current engines played each other in my older tour/machines:
https://sites.google.com/site/computers ... m1s-rating
Note: I used Bullet TC in 2017, now it's planning to be used Blitz TC
In short, I wonder what will be influences under better hardware cond.
Because 2x EPYC is much faster (in chess) than 2 E5-2686 / i7 980X
In other words, If nothing else, it's expecting better/stronger games..
Plus I wonder too, what will be the overall draw percentages..

Besides, who can predict about which engine will be Number One ?)
Be aware of that too (as in recent organized tour -555kb):
The new championship will consist two separate rankings:
Derivative Eng Ranking plus Original Eng Ranking as well!
Otherwise, it will be not so much fair... right ?)

And please stay tuned...more info very soon )

Greetings

1st UPDATE

Meanwhile, just to be more clear:
Exc. two Champion tittles, there will be GRAND Champion tittle as well
E.g in the Finals,
The Winner of Original Engines will be played Vs the Winner of Derivative...

Note also that,
All current matches are playing at Blitz (2m+1s), min 660 games (per player)
Where the GRAND final will be played at Rapid (10m+5s), min 100 games...

And here are latest results of Derivative Eng Standing:

Update 2

The Derivative Eng Tour is over...

The Champion: asmFish 191117- Congrats to asmFish, SF team !

And in same time that means,
asmFish 191117 is 1st finalist for Grand Champion final....

UPDATE 3

Original Eng Tour's Champion: Houdini 6.03 - Congrats to Robert Houdart! Note also that,
Ethereal 8.61 is replaced with Shredder 13, as reason:
Ethereal seems to be much weaker than current players

COMING SOON:
GRAND FINAL (10m+5s): asmFish 191117 Vs Houdini 6.03

Good luck to Top Engine Authors... and let's best engine wins...!

Greetings )